Ok, Suikoden 4 wasn't as good as the others, but Suikoden 3 was better than Suikoden 1. It had a better story, had some cool plot twists, better battle systems, and the triple hero system kicked ass.
Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
- Thread starter scoops
- Start date
oooh, star ocean is a good one. I started playing that before tales of symphonia, but then got sucked into tales and never finished. I liked it better before i played tales though.
It's a fun game though, and unlike most titles, i kinda enjoyed sitting back and watching the cutscenes
It's a fun game though, and unlike most titles, i kinda enjoyed sitting back and watching the cutscenes
I nearly always enjoy cutscenes. Especially FF cutscenes (unless I'm desparate to save, cause I need to do something else).
The lengthy/weighty story of Star Ocean is half of the attraction of the game to me.
The lengthy/weighty story of Star Ocean is half of the attraction of the game to me.
gah, the cutscenes in xenosaga were ridiculous. I swear that there were some that were 30 minutes long
I've played Xenosaga and I didn't like it. I HATED the battle system, and the story seemed trite.
cut scenes are fine if they are significant. The FF cutscenes are visually awesome (usually), but sometimes they have no point or go way too long. I think that sometimes they try to cram too much into a scene. I understand how that happens, though, as a writer.
The only real problem I have with the cutscenes in most games is the fact that cinematically, they're almost always trash. Combine that with the absolutely horrible civic-theater level of acting talent in most games and they're just painful to watch. Add to that the one-dimensional transparency of the characters in nearly every game, and it's even worse.
There's actually a good little interview in the latest issue of Play magazine that touches on this, I encourage anyone who's interested to check it out.
There's actually a good little interview in the latest issue of Play magazine that touches on this, I encourage anyone who's interested to check it out.
basilmunroe said:
the first part of the game is interesting but it gets really boring with the horrible musical soundtrack and the jittery movement..square could have seriously done better than this.
BC, I agree about the quality of the cutscene actors. However, I think more and more games will start employing better voice actors. I was pretty pleased with the Halo 2 cutscenes, for example. Ron RIfkin also did one of the voices. The more they pay attention to details, the better the game will be.
It's not just the actors, but the "cinematography" as well. I think that the more that games try to be like movies, the worse things get. I chalk this up to the fundamental, inherent difference between movies and games; movies are a passive experience while games are an interactive one. I just don't think it's possible to tell the same kind of story in both formats, so when you try to insert one storytelling medium (a movie) into the other (a game), there's an unavoidable idiomatic conflict.
All this disagreeing with BC is getting tiresome... But....
I see your point and there is a lot of validity to it. But when I play a game like FF or anything with a few cutscenes, they always enrich the story for me. They make me feel like I'm contributing to something larger, something that goes beyond my ability to control my character. If the story doesn't take over once in a while, then adventure games are little different from sports games or something like Mario Party.
I see your point and there is a lot of validity to it. But when I play a game like FF or anything with a few cutscenes, they always enrich the story for me. They make me feel like I'm contributing to something larger, something that goes beyond my ability to control my character. If the story doesn't take over once in a while, then adventure games are little different from sports games or something like Mario Party.
Well, there's always a range of human experience and taste. Someone could think Titanic was the best movie ever made and I could think it's trash. I could think Blade Runner was the best movie ever made and someone else could think it's trash. When you're talking about experience, emotion, and "art", there are few absolutes.
However, i have never played a game that had what I found to be compelling or exciting cut scenes. Part this, I'm sure, is because I haven't found a game that didn't have transparently one-dimensional, predictable characters, but there's more to it than that and it took me a long time to figure out what it was. The above is the conclusion that I came to -- but it doesn't necessarily apply to someone else.
I guess what it also comes down to for me is that I think anything that can be done in a passive cinematic should be possible in active gameplay, so I sometimes feel cheated out of a true gaming experience, intead being spoon-fed some kind of cinematic experience.
However, i have never played a game that had what I found to be compelling or exciting cut scenes. Part this, I'm sure, is because I haven't found a game that didn't have transparently one-dimensional, predictable characters, but there's more to it than that and it took me a long time to figure out what it was. The above is the conclusion that I came to -- but it doesn't necessarily apply to someone else.
I guess what it also comes down to for me is that I think anything that can be done in a passive cinematic should be possible in active gameplay, so I sometimes feel cheated out of a true gaming experience, intead being spoon-fed some kind of cinematic experience.
true, true, Basil. Sometimes they show what you're fighting for, or what is inside the character's head. We immerse ourselves in the character we're controlling, but for the game to truly be worthy, the character has to have a life of its own. Otherwise it's just a digital puppet. I'm not saying that the cutscenes have traditionally been done well, but the concept is a good one. Knights of the Old Republic has some good scenes in it that flow with the gameplay really well. They can also guide you to where you need to go instead of a menu that simply states a mission goal.
You're right, BC. Art can't be taken for what it is. It must be interpreted, just like language. If language were taken at face value, it becomes meaningless symbols and sounds. Same with art.
I agree with you about the lack of depth to game characters though. I think the problem lies in the dichotomy between the idea of the player being the character and the character asserting himself in the story as an individual. Which ultimately comes back to your problem with cut-scenes in the first place. But until we have something akin to the AI the holodeck is capable of, we'll have to deal with whatever the developers can spit out.
I agree with you about the lack of depth to game characters though. I think the problem lies in the dichotomy between the idea of the player being the character and the character asserting himself in the story as an individual. Which ultimately comes back to your problem with cut-scenes in the first place. But until we have something akin to the AI the holodeck is capable of, we'll have to deal with whatever the developers can spit out.
i dont know. like the ending of tales of symphonia.. that wsa just beautiful. and it was rewarding to finally be able to set down the controller and watch the results of my efforts unfold in story-telling format and not have to feel like there was more to do.
when left in control, the player feels like his input is needed at any moment. during a cutscene (and this is where RE4 was fun) you feel safe to relax a little. and i think that's appropriate, especially at the end of the game. but i don't think it's necessary.
when left in control, the player feels like his input is needed at any moment. during a cutscene (and this is where RE4 was fun) you feel safe to relax a little. and i think that's appropriate, especially at the end of the game. but i don't think it's necessary.
I guess I should be more specific too. I think there's a difference between an ending movie or a short expository scene and the longer cinematics typical of, say, RPG's. By "short expository scene" i mean thos breaks when the game takes control of the camera for a moment to show an important detail that they player may miss or which is important to gameplay progress.
I think there are lost of great points here. Basil's comment about the struggle between the player's control of and identification with the character and the character's predetermined identification given by the designers is spot-on. I think there's also a conflict between trying to tell a story and trying to design interactive entertainment; while a game's creators may have specific artistic themes they want to get across, they also have to conform to certain conventions and make certain concession for the sake of gameplay (most simply, the classic "press the X Button" speech given by an in-game character).
My personal feeling is that I'm playing games in order to experience the interactive elements, and I'd prefer as little of the passive elements as possible. If I wanted a passive story, I'd watch a movie or read a book. If I'm playing a game, I actually want to play it. For this reason, I've moved away from some of the more heavily story-driven genres in the recent years, like RPG's, that I had formerly really loved.
I think there are lost of great points here. Basil's comment about the struggle between the player's control of and identification with the character and the character's predetermined identification given by the designers is spot-on. I think there's also a conflict between trying to tell a story and trying to design interactive entertainment; while a game's creators may have specific artistic themes they want to get across, they also have to conform to certain conventions and make certain concession for the sake of gameplay (most simply, the classic "press the X Button" speech given by an in-game character).
My personal feeling is that I'm playing games in order to experience the interactive elements, and I'd prefer as little of the passive elements as possible. If I wanted a passive story, I'd watch a movie or read a book. If I'm playing a game, I actually want to play it. For this reason, I've moved away from some of the more heavily story-driven genres in the recent years, like RPG's, that I had formerly really loved.
i mostly enjoy the story-driven games cause i like the slow but steady improvement of stats and the idea of getting cool loot, that's also backed up by numbers, unlike an action game where you just get a bigger gun. the rpg appeals to me because it's not just completely pointless. i don't like it when the story is just there for that reason though, to give us a reason to go out and find bigger swords and to level up. that's why i think the story is important.
and in tales of symphonia, i am talking about a longer manga-style drawn animation sequence at the end of the game, and maybe like one or two short ones throughout, can't remember.
and in tales of symphonia, i am talking about a longer manga-style drawn animation sequence at the end of the game, and maybe like one or two short ones throughout, can't remember.