freedom of speech vs. Islam

I think you're right, Spuds, France has had a very open immigration process "You hate America? Ok, you're in." Their colonies in particular have been immigrating for years.
 
spudlyff8fan said:
And yet all three thats have already been established...
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Uhh... no. <i>"It would be equally wrong for someone to draw inflamatory (no pun intended) cartoons depicting things forbidden by homosexual philosophies."</i> Not quite "established" there, big guy. Maybe you're using some nonstandard definition of "established".

Man, I need a new whiteboard, I'm running out of room for the "Steve's wrong" column.
 
Darth_Jonas said:
I think you're right, Spuds, France has had a very open immigration process "You hate America? Ok, you're in." Their colonies in particular have been immigrating for years.
Click to expand...

Yeah, France hates the U.S. so much that they're one our most important allies in the fight against terrorism. Just a few examples (you can probably find lots more on your own):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9107811/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/02/AR2005070201361.html
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/fellows/shapiro20030301.htm

Yep, them Frenchies really hate us... now where's my freedom fries?
 
Most important? Think for a second BC, and I'll make sure to accept your apology for saying something stupid.
 
it's an attitude thing. They know they need us, and we need them (for the most part). For financial, international relations, technological, terrorist, intelligence, and other issues. BC, I'm not saying they don't deal with us. They don't like us. I've been over there. They would jump on you just for being American. I know I posted this somewhere before, but: while I was in Paris with my best friend, his girlfriend and her female friends, a fight was about to break out between two French dudes. The girls insisted that we leave, because if a fight did break out (which we knew it would), that someone would jump on us. When we asked why, they said because we are Americans. It wouldn't matter that we were just passing through. And that's just one example. I know of several other people that have had similar experiences. The US is tolerated, not welcomed.

THAT is the attitude I was speaking of. It is profitable for us to play nice. Nothing more. Keep your sarcasm, BC. Go over there and see how well you're received.
 
Gotta agree with Jonas here BC. The French hate Americans, infact the entire world hates America. Number 1 reason why? Because America and Americans love to impose their idelogy and try to force people to think the way we do. But thats the beauty of being the most powerful country in the entire world, we can do just about anything we want.
 
I think it's more rooted into France and America being pretty similar in how each country is pretty cocky and are pretty much on top of various fields. It's kind of like me and BC. But I don't think he'd run away if I yelled "boo" at him.
 
Wow. I'm really surprised at the willfull ignorance going on here. I think some people have taken the French-bashing "joke" a little too far. I stand by my statement that France is one of our most important allies. If you disagree, read the articles I linked to first, and then disagree with them.

I'd also like to reiterate that I don't think the press should have been limited here. I'm not trying to be an apologist for the actions of the rioters here, but I do think we need to take a good long look from different perspectives to see just what's going on. I'm not comforted by a few lines of rhetoric when things like this happen.

Moving on, what if we found out that the outrage over this cartoon was actually spurred by the governments of a small number of nations?
 
I never said the French weren't important allies. They still do. not. like. us. Again I say, if you don't believe me, go over there yourself. If I had the funds, I would pay your way. Read all the articles you want. It won't change the fact that they don't like Americans. You wouldn't really have to go all the way over there. Find some French people. They'll probably be honest with you (they usually tell you exactly how they feel anyways). Even if they themselves don't have a problem with us, they will tell you how their countrymen feel. Willful ignorance? I speak from experience. Stubborn I am. Ignorant of the French opinion of Americans, I am not. The ones that hosted us were kind and showed us love (except for her brother, who hated the smell of bacon. They don't cook it like we do). However, other people were deliberately rude to us. Our hosts apologized numerous times.

And I wouldn't be surprised if countries like Iran and Syria (or whoever) are trying to use this to alienate the Muslim world from the West. If that is the case, then they could bring allies to themselves, unite under a common goal ("down with the West"), and challenge us to do anything about it. They know our dependency on oil will keep us in check from attacking everyone, and Israel will be an island if Iraq falls to the extremists again.

They know our military limits now that they have seen how we have handled Iraq (meaning we have a stressed army that would be hard pressed to do much more right now). If they can make a strong enough stance and rally support quickly, then the other European colonies in Africa could possibly rally to their cause as well. If only to bring financial or trade benefits. Islam is the fastest spreading religion in Africa already.
 
There's a huge difference between people not liking America and people not liking Americans. I'll take news from several sources over anecdotal envidence though, thanks.

Now, I can see why you wouldn't be surprised if it were Iran and Syria stirring up trouble. But what if it were countries that are supposed to be our allies, like Saudi Arabia?
 
Saudi's are a strange bunch. From those that have gone over there, they are pretty strict about their laws. (A missionary's wife that I met said that she accidentally left her purse on a bench waiting for a bus one evening. she found it in exactly the same spot the next morning.) However, most of the troops that come back from there, that I've spoken to, said they weren't really friendly and they were told to stay out of certain places and near the base at all times. That sounds contradictory to me. They have been our allies for a while, but it wasn't too long ago that they were not allies.

Being Muslim-controlled, they do have the same desire to see Israel wiped off the face of the earth as the other Muslim countries. But yet, we are Israel's strongest ally. It is a delicate balance. Why are they our allies in the first place? Financial? Military? Is oil the only reason?
 
I don't know why Saudi Arabia is still our ally. Nearly all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi. Yet we didn't even investigate this. If I were more paranoid I'd say follow the money. But for now I'll just say that this selective method we use to determine which countries to attack and invade is one of tha min reasons I dislike the Bush administration. If they would have done something, anything, when we found out that most of the hijackers were Saudi, it woul dbe one thing but... nope. Let's invade Iraq instead! Saddam is a bad man!
 
It will be interesting if things come out in twenty years (freedom of information type stuff) that lets us know some of the things that are going on behind the scenes. I also don't blame Bush for all of this. Not a single senator of reporter (that I've ever heard about) has ever promoted Saudi Arabia as the best target for our ire. Why not? You'd think that Kerry, or the other Dems would have mentioned them before and said W. was not attacking the real bad guys.
 
Yeah, thank God for the Oil For Food program. That really showed how good of an ally France is. You call me willfullingly ignorant?
 
I am ignorant, though not entirely willfully. I am just not good at following current events. I find your discussions interesting and enlightening though.
 
listen up. Islam is not evil. its just there are bad people. the media is just showing us bad things to make u hate them.America is not all criminals and yet the media only shows the bad side of America. u know america is not like that. the same thing with Islam, they are not criminals just a few bad people. dont believe everything on the news. the news is just to inform you. they are just like rumors. they dont always have the correct facts. think about it.
 
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