freedom of speech vs. Islam
- Thread starter Darth_Jonas
- Start date
Nobody wants to attack France because it's too easy to win. That's like picking a fist fight with a blind kid.
I agree with wijg, everyone just needs to relax. Jesus has been portrayed how many different ways. Hell, watch Family Guy for long enough and they make fun of God and Jesus. But you don't see Christians storming the streets, burning things down, and rioting. Instead, we laugh it off because it's a joke!
PS- Someone help me with a basic geography lesson...This was a Danish cartoon, published in a Danish newspaper, ect. ect. The general theme is "Danish," which I am relatively sure is not located within the borders of the United States. So how come we are catching a rift of shit for it?
I agree with wijg, everyone just needs to relax. Jesus has been portrayed how many different ways. Hell, watch Family Guy for long enough and they make fun of God and Jesus. But you don't see Christians storming the streets, burning things down, and rioting. Instead, we laugh it off because it's a joke!
PS- Someone help me with a basic geography lesson...This was a Danish cartoon, published in a Danish newspaper, ect. ect. The general theme is "Danish," which I am relatively sure is not located within the borders of the United States. So how come we are catching a rift of shit for it?
aseverwas said:
Just don't try to say that homosexuality is okay, that seems to get those Christians in a huff.
aseverwas said:
I have been wondering the same thing. I think that they could turn anything into America's fault. They've started attacking G.W. too. As if he said it himself. It must suck sometimes to be the leader of the biggest superpower in the world.
They don't always get out into the public, but the plane that hit the Pentagon on Sept 11 was supposed to smack the White House so they could kill the President. But indeed, there are many, many assassination attempts on almost every president. The only ones you really hear about are the ones that succeed.
I think other people call this stuff "conspiracy theory". You know there's also a theory that the "plane" that hit the pentagon was actually a missile and that the moon landing was faked.
Anywya, there was that guy that threw a grenade at Bush, but it didn't explode. I think he's serving a life sentence in his own country now. I'm sure there are lotsof plots, but if there were an actually assassination attempt I doubt we wouldn't hear about it, especially if it was stopped. That makes great, patriotic news.
Anywya, there was that guy that threw a grenade at Bush, but it didn't explode. I think he's serving a life sentence in his own country now. I'm sure there are lotsof plots, but if there were an actually assassination attempt I doubt we wouldn't hear about it, especially if it was stopped. That makes great, patriotic news.
Hey Asylum, Do you remember my friend Neil at UNCC? He suggested I redo the "ever feel like a goat?" drawing. Do you remember that one?
Vaguely....but do it anyway....that will probably stir my mind into remembering....at the very least, it may haunt my dreams forever.....Put it on this forum so i can think....
I don't think I can do that. It illustrated a Butlerism that was made up by a guy I worked with. It went something like this:
Picture a goat on a cliff. He can't go forward, left, or right without plummetting to his death. Behind him is a hillbilly with his pants around his ankles, boinking the goat. All the goat can do is stand there and take it. Ever feel like a goat?
I illustrated a little cartoon of it that would periodically appear whenever we were doing an especially crappy job. Even though someone else might have messed up, we were the goats. Neil asked me to redo it except to replace the goat with the subject of the controversial cartoons and the hillbilly with Uncle Sam, Bush, or someone like that.
I personally don't want to get shot, bombed, or die any kind of death like that, so I'll leave my drawing pen in the drawer.
Picture a goat on a cliff. He can't go forward, left, or right without plummetting to his death. Behind him is a hillbilly with his pants around his ankles, boinking the goat. All the goat can do is stand there and take it. Ever feel like a goat?
I illustrated a little cartoon of it that would periodically appear whenever we were doing an especially crappy job. Even though someone else might have messed up, we were the goats. Neil asked me to redo it except to replace the goat with the subject of the controversial cartoons and the hillbilly with Uncle Sam, Bush, or someone like that.
I personally don't want to get shot, bombed, or die any kind of death like that, so I'll leave my drawing pen in the drawer.
BCampbell said:
Methinks BC is bringing his "Brokeback Mountain" argument into another forum...
And even though that might be the Catholic Church's opinion (not necessarily shared by ALL of its members), I still don't see Catholics burning things down, killing, rioting, and screaming death to Democrats whenever an issue on homosexuality comes up.
yeah. I'm Baptist and we take the same stance as the Catholics on the homosexuality issue. Which is, it's a sin, God said so, can be forgiven like any other sin, and homosexuals should not be slaughtered because of it. However, trying to relate those beliefs to how the cartoon issue is being dealt with is a bit of a stretch. It would be equally wrong for someone to draw inflamatory (no pun intended) cartoons depicting things forbidden by homosexual philosophies. You don't help anyone by disrespecting them and treating them poorly.
aseverwas said:
Actually I was referring to a play where jesus was portrayed as homosexual, and Christians protested. Close... well, not really. See Steve, not a deflection.
Anyway, this would be a good time to talk about the fact that there are differnet kinds of Muslims just like there are differnet kinds of Christians. There are Christians who bomb clinics, ther eare Muslims who riot. There are also good Christians and good Muslims. This is a relaly sticky situation, and i think this whole this is about more than just a cartoon; it's more like the straw that broke the camel's back. Let's face it, most of the Western world doesn't realy understand Islam and it gets a pretty negative portrayal here. There are also many peopel who see our invasion of Iraq as a religious war; Bush regularly invokes religious themes, he claims that God speaks to him, and it's not a huge leap to assume that there's a religious theme to this conflict. That doesn't really help things any.
There's a huge gulf in understanding between the western world and the Muslim world. That's the real problem. People, for example, spreading false rumors about middle eastern gas station owners not serving U.S. soldiers, and said gas station owner subsequently recieving threats, well stuff like that doesn't help.
The problem with the cartoon is that there's no easy comaprison to Christianity. Making an image of Mohammed is a direct desecration to Mohammed. It would be like pissing on Christ's tomb.
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spudlyff8fan said:
Established what? Did you even read what I wrote? There are at least three "that"s in there.
BCampbell said:
You're right in saying there's no easy comparison to Christianity. There was an artist about 10 years ago that did photos of crucifixes and crosses floating under an in liquid. They were black and white as well as color. Then he revealed the title: "Piss Christ". The liquid was human urine. He did it for shock value and to get attention (even negative attention is still publicity), and it worked. However, no one killed him or even destroyed his work. Christians handled it completely different.
I do, however, disagree with the "different kinds of Muslims" statement. At first, I thought the same thing. And I think the ones in America are a different breed or at least have a different mentality about it. However, European, Asian, Mid-Eastern and African Muslims are pretty much doing the same things. It's not like all the violence is concentrated in Afghanistan. I'm in awe that so many Muslims feel that strongly, and are willing to go to those extremes over one cartoon. It isn't even a good cartoon. And before all the outrage, it was published in one newspaper in Denmark. Nobody even knew where Denmark was before this happened. "Somewhere near Germany?" "I know it's in Europe, somewhere." These are quotes from coworkers and clients.
BCampbell said:
And yet all three thats have already been established...
But indeed, Jonas. Muslim extremists are all over the world. Like the Chechnians (sp?) who attacked that school in Russia, or the constant tensions and occasional bombings in countries like Indonesia. But I think many of the French and Spanish muslims are actually FROM the middle east or close descendants of them.