spudlyff8fan said:The point is, though, that if you are not playing to win, or if you're playing just for fun, or calling cheap, then you just are not good at the game.
As for Jonas...I don't get what you're saying? Are you saying that the players should stop using combos? Or are they not good if they rely on combos? Because if the player knows the combos, and wins with them, then they're just plain the winner of the match. Really...you can't win a fighting game without the combos. The mid-air-prone glitch, though, might not be scrubbish. If the glitch is banned in tournament play, then it shouldn't be bothered with because since the best players are in tournies, the best players are forced to go without it and you should be striving to be the best. But for one as huge on fighting games as myself, I've encountered glitches that would BLOW YOUR MIND. Many of them are NECESSITIES to the best players. L-Cancelling and Wave Dashing in Smash Brothers come to mind. Many fast-fall glitches (like Iceman). Unblockables, and more. They're part of the game and should be used as such. You should prolly read this, too: http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-2-mailbag/
spudlyff8fan said:And even so, he's entirely right about nearly everything. But really, sportsmanship makes you less-lovable as a player, but it doesn't do anything to your skill. Sirlin's skills, Daigo's skills, and Ortiz's skills are what make them undeniably some of the best players in the world. They can jump up and call people bitches and yell that they got OWNED after each match if they like, but they still just plain rule. But really, he didn't say anything arrogant or untrue in any of his articles..
The truth of it is that some of us are coming from the old school. Those of us veterans of the Great Age of Arcades know what it's like to drop a quarter and be playing alone or with equal skill levels and then have some jackass decide he wants to rule the machine. If no one is around who can match him, everybody leaves and the fun is spoiled.
Ok if you're losing to the same thing over and over again, then you just plain need to learn how to beat it. There's no such thing as an extremely powerful move/power/combo that is entirely unbeatable (unless the game sucks).And maybe instead of cheap, I should have stated shallow. I understand excellent gaming, perfecting the use of a character, and pushing the limits of your knowledge and mastery of the game against your opponents. What I find distasteful, shallow and... cheap... is when someone ONLY knows a single, extremely powerful move/power/combo. It's not only boring to play against them, but it annoys me when they use the cheapness agsinst players who are just trying to learn. The ones aspiring to learn, or just having fun, or are curious about a game and want to know what it's like will get turned off to a game when one of the ego-maniacs feels the need to crush the little guy. Of course that's when someone like myself likes to step in and humiliate them. (Asylum can testify).
What do you want him to do? Intentionally lose? I'm young, but I've played my share of Killer Instinct. I had a monstrous Combo game, somebody complained that it was cheap that I kept using a juggle and like an idiot, I felt bad. That set me back years in becoming good at fighting games. It boils down to you wanting to become better, instead of wanting them to become worse.The truth of it is that some of us are coming from the old school. Those of us veterans of the Great Age of Arcades know what it's like to drop a quarter and be playing alone or with equal skill levels and then have some jackass decide he wants to rule the machine. If no one is around who can match him, everybody leaves and the fun is spoiled. You pups who have always had a console to yourself have probably always played with others who had the same gaming mindset whether it is play for blood, fun, curiosity, or just screwing around. You don't understand what it means to be matched against someone who is playing for fun when you want to really throw down, or someone who is ready to go all gladiator when you just want to see what the game is all about.
Typo.Sportmanship makes you LESS likable as a player? Um... OK. Personally, I find all the trash talk and crap in sports nowadays a real turn OFF personally... I don't care of they DO have mad skills, going to sports events as a spectator is primarily ENTERTAINMENT, and I don't find overpaid one-trick-ponies being asswipes entertaining (especially with what tickets cost nowadays).
In which case, you and everyone around you would just plain suck. You would "not be good at a game" because you'd be very easily killable. Like I said...become better, and you shouldn't be playing to let other players stand a chance. That only makes it so neither of you get any better at the game. Don't expect better players to play down to you. I'd be offended if I was playing a top-level player and s/he (well...he) wasn't trying.Outside of the rarified "competitions", being a jagoff is the worst thing imaginable. Not only does it basically make "fun" a limited commodity, one that only the "winner" gets to partake of, but it makes it so that other more casual players don't want anything to do with that person. Personally, I'd rather "not be good at a game" (whatever THAT means) and have a roomfull of people to play with rather than be the jerk that nobody wants to play. To the jerk, their isolation means that people are "too scared to step up and defeat him" and they can leave feeling like they ruled the room... Whatever.
But what do you want the guy to do? He's definitively excellent at the game and will kick your ass, and the ass of everyone else in the room. Should he stop playing?Darth_Jonas said:And no, little tater, it's not right to intentionally lose (in the arcade). But again, it depends on why you are playing in the first place. To those of you who've never really had to deal with not having your own personal gaming machine, I say this: Would you buy a brand new game for your personal console, set it to the Legendary level of difficulty and play it? No. You play it on the easier levels so you can figure it out. On your own console, you will play friends (or online gamers) who actually want to play with you.
You can ask other players. Back on KI, I learned Jago entirely from one of my pals. I figured out combos on my own, though (with Combo, which wasn't too tough...since it's in the name).Back in the day, there were no strategy guides. No internet blogs and chat rooms to find all the secrets. Heck, half the time, there weren't even any instructions on the machine or they would just be the basic "punch, block, kick". You would have to spend enough quarters to buy three machines before you were even able to counter the uber-move.
spudlyff8fan said:But what do you want the guy to do? He's definitively excellent at the game and will kick your ass, and the ass of everyone else in the room. Should he stop playing?
it's not about "ruling the room", it's about having a good match with someone just as skilled. analysing patterns and strategies, breaking through defenses. most good players have a rehearsed combination of things they do during a match. seeing the pattern and breaking their strategy forces that player to come up with an entirely new strategy on the spot; which in turn forces you to adjust your strategy; which is what keeps the game interesting. It's almost like having a chess match.