Women gamers a paradox?

Klink

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What are you looking at?
According to an article written awhile ago by one Chris Crawford in The Escapist this is how gaming has evolved amongst the sexes...

To paraphrase (it is a bit of a read):

Men love shooting and fighting and violent/bloody games because they have been hard-coded, via something called evolutionary psychology (link provided from the article).

As per his example set the sort of games women enjoy are:

"...Some sort of interactive soap opera or bodice ripper, presenting the player with complex social problems as she seeks the ideal mate. Contrast this with the kind of software currently being offered to women and you can see why so little progress has been made with this group." Chris Crawford

So I open this to everyone out there that is or knows a female gamer. Do you believe that his theory on women gamers is apt? or is it way off base?

In order to fully comprehend what he's trying to say I highly recommend you read the article.
 
Just by the caption you provided, i can definitely say that that part is false by Mr. Crawford.....My wife has been a gamer since we met....from racing games to Halo:Combat Evolved....there are no limits......Her current game addiction would be the Xbox Live Arcade...or any game that she can beat me at.....Like i said i "accidently" lose the controller alot....; )
 
For starters, I haven't yet read the article.

If we assume that those distinctions are correct, it is easier to understand the reason that there are more male gamers. I imagine it is easier to program actions such as trying to defeat an opponent vs complex social problems. In the former example, there is only one possible outcome. Someone wins. In the latter example, it is not always the case that someone wins or is right.

Just some thoughts as I am sitting here at work.
 
But by Crawford's complicated example female gamers should show no interest in games such as: Halo, Wolfenstein, or any form of fighting games, or even be remotely good at them, because they haven't been hard-coded genetically to 'get them'.

I find it rather shallow of Crawford to just assume I want a video game that's ROMANTIC (look at Japan, nearly all of their Dating Sims games are geared towards men) because over the centuries and generations my psychology has evolved to WANT that.

I would like to state for the record, however, that I am awesome at fighting games. I may suck at the shooting sims, but I have yet to meet a boy that can best me at any fighting game I put my mind to (and NOT button mashing).

So does this mean that I'm not really a woman? Or that I'm just pretending to like the fighting games or that I get LUCKY playing them?

As a girl that's been playing video games for nearly 15 years I find that somewhat offensive that he would take a complex principal and try to apply it to videogames and assume that it should be correct.

And evolutionary psychology is still a new concept and has been proven not to be 100% accurrate historical wise...look at the Amazon's of yore, of medieval women (Joan of Arc...screw the god concept, in times of war it was up to women to defend their hamlets/towns/villages while the men were off fighting, it was their job to strategize and plan, and I know that prior to that, if there were fewer men than women they would practice role reversal whereby the men would stay with the adolescent children and the women would perform the hunting tasks...those that didn't have babies, obviously).
 
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Okay, I still have not read the article, because I am still at work. But I love the idea of chicks who kick much ass. Samus is my favorite video game character as Metroid is my favorite series. I follow the credo set forth by Spike in Knockin' On Heaven's Door: I love a woman who can kick my ass.
 
I follow the credo set forth by Spike in Knockin' On Heaven's Door: I love a woman who can kick my ass.

damn, i was so about to type that!

i haven't read that article, but i know a couple girls that would be royally pissed if they read that, just because they are living proof of it not being 100% true. these girls could seriously whoop ass and take names in halo/unreal tourny.
 
Ok, I have now read the article. I actually thought it was a very interesting analysis. If you assume that the motivations of early humans can apply to our situation today, then the author's recommendations make logical sense. The only problem, which I believe the author acknowledged, is that the motivations of early humans do not apply as directly to our situation today. While I am not an expert on evolutionary psychology, I would proffer that the singular motivation of early humans was survival. Millions of years ago, we were not the dominate species on the planet. Therefore, I think the generalizations the author provided could be applied across a large swath of the population. People didn't live as long. Therefore, there was not as much time to concern one's self with other activities.

In our modern times, most people don't concern themselves with their immediate survival. Most people in our society know where their next meal is coming from and aren't as worried about if they will make it through the day without being attacked by ferocious beasts. Because we have greatly improved our general chances for survival, we have opened up numerous other motivations for living our lives.

However, I would support the idea that males have been much more resistant to leaving behind our evolutionary motivations. Our brains seem to derive pleasure from extremely simple things. I am continually amazed at how easily I am amused. Video games are a perfect outlet for this strange underpinning. I would imagine that in the early years of video games, most women just didn't understand how a guy could find so much amusement in bouncing a ball between two paddles. But we do. I don't understand why either. And while some games have become much more complex, there is probably still a general perception by women that they are simple and they still can't understand why we love them so much. This argument does lend itself to some of the ideas in the article. Men hunt and provide seed. Women did everything else necessary for the survival of the group. Men simple, women complex. And early in video game's history, all they could do was simple. The potential for story development wasn't very good. Most of the games boiled down to the player was the good guy and everyone else was bad and needed to be defeated. But as I mentioned above, because guys don't mind this simple stuff, we could live with that. We didn't ask Mario's motivation for stomping strange mushroom creatures and turtles, despite the fact that neither looked menacing. We didn't question the reprucussion of Link running through the forests and slaying all manners of woodland creatures. We did it because they were bad. Nowadays though video games have a much greater potential for story development. Therefore people who are attracted to more involved narratives are looking with interest towards video games.

Ok, I could go on and on some more, but I think I lost the point a long time ago. For those that read the entire post, I hope my ramblings weren't too crazy. It is my writing style. I don't plan, it just flows.

In the end I think what I meant to say is that I like chicks and I wish they would play video games with me.
 
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Here's what I believe as far as what women gamers want - they want the same things male gamers want. Which is to say, a huge and wide variety of games, and not narrowly focused on one type.

Men like all kinds of games, and so do women. Tastes depend upon the individual man or woman in question. I know plenty of guys who loathe and despise first-person shooters or other primarily violent type games, because they find them not very innovative or creative. They'd prefer wacky games like Katamari Damacy or similar. Then there's women like the Frag Dolls, who not only like their violence, but enjoy gratuitously dishing it out towards the opposite gender. :devil:

To pigeonhole women gamers (and male gamers, for that matter) into what kinds of games they like, and therefore narrow their own perceptions of what games can be, is to miss the whole point of the genders of the human race. Last I remember, men and women were both human...we can interbreed with each other, at any rate...
 
Because I am Beth and I have to put forth a short but sweet analyasis on the situation:

I think the article is shit.

What do i want as a game?

A game that holds my attention for more than five minutes.
 
I think that there are reasons more men are gamers than women, but it has little or nothing to do with programming. The main reason, IMO, has more to do with a different kind of psychology. CNN ran an article about the different reactions men and women have to punishment. Women are more empathetic to people than men. I could go into more detail about the study, but the end result was that even when people deserved punishment, the women still empathized a little with them. Men actually gained pleasure from seeing the punishment.

This isn't news. In guy movies, it is crucial that the bad guy "gets it" in the end, and usually in a more violent way than in a chick flick. In chick flicks, it is more important that the hero/heroine find their goal (usually love or recognition or something) than it is that the bad guy die.

That isn't to say that women can't enjoy watching the loser of a match getting his spine ripped out. But most guys enjoy aggression at some level. Whereas women typically don't. Most women either think it's gratuitous or don't get why men enjoy it so much. I seem to always end up explaining to my wife and her friends why it is funny when someone gets killed in a creative way by the hero. They get that he deserved to die, but why I'm cheering is beyond their comprehension. Of course, I don't get why they cry at chick flicks. (In fact, they no longer let me watch those movies because I laugh and make fun of them.)

Oh, and good point Klink on the history of women fighters. i was thinking of that before I read your post. Women are fully capable of throwing down. Most just don't enjoy it, though, and therefore prefer other things over violence (storylines, mental challenges, skill challenges, etc.)
 
I know I'm going to get barbecued for this, but I do think he has a point (no matter how badly and confusingly stated)... What he's really sayng here is not that there's no such thing as female gamers, but that female gamer, by and large, plays games for totally different reasons than men. The massive appeal for games like Civilization and the Sims to females is a reaosnable one, as such games have a different focus than games like, say, Doom or Half Life.

THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT WOMEN CAN'T LIKE SHOOTERS, so don't forum-gank me, OK? Even the author says (albeit insultingly):

At this point, there's always some twit who points out that there are some women who can run faster than some men. Indeed so, but noting an exception to a generalization does not disprove the generalization; it establishes only that the generalization is not an absolute law. There are a handful of genetically odd women who lack breasts, but we don't quibble about them when discussing the role of breasts in female function, do we?

While I find this analogy somewhat crude and annoying, he's got a point. For example, go to QuakeCon. Or to any gaming convention, really. Most of the players there are men. The Frag Dolls are awesome, sure, but let's be honest- 90% of their celebrity comes from the fact that they ARE women and so are, comparitively speaking, an oddity. Hell, they even went out of their way to find THIN ATTRACTIVE WOMEN and usually dress them in skimpy outfits for press appearances, make-up done and hair styled, an object for their teen peers to oggle over. Anyone I've ever met that's actually seen the Frag Dolls remembers their appearance first and foremost about them, more so than their skill, and I'd bet you a million bucks that all those women are aware of the powerful afect their looks have on their (mostly male) opponants.

So, if you're a female and like fragging wit' da boyz, more power to you. I can't say I like a woman more if she can kick my ass- too much of the world is already in that category, thanks very much- but I can say that I love anyone that can win and loose with grace and sportsmanship, and I think that by and large, females tend to share this trait better than the majority of their male counterparts. If the desire to hope that women end up bringing a bit more grace and civiility into games and gaming, either through their direct actions or the actions that they inspire/shame in others, then I guess you'll just have to call me a pig.

:cookiemon
 
Well, if you simply look at polls in regards to things that are somehow related to violence, females are almost always far more against it then men. Taking a recent poll about whether or not the military should be allowed to torture terrorists for information, men were something along the lines of 60-40 against, while women were something like 85-15 against. This goes pretty much across the board, women generally aren't as tolerant about violence as men.
 
I think that one reason that there aren't that many female gamers out there is because, well, the game industry is absolutely clueless as to what they really want. The vast majority of games out there are targeted towards young men, sure, but usually, when a game comes out that's targeted towards women, the game industry in general relies upon gender role stereotypes and clichés.

Por ejemplo, the recently released Super Princess Peach for the Nintendo DS. At first, the game seems like a good attempt at role reversal and making a case for diverse female personalities and roles: basically, Princess Peach has to rescue Mario, and not the other way around. But then, after that initial novelty wears off, it descends into a pit of gender clichés and stereotypes that border on misogyny. Peach's primary weapons in the game are a parasol and her unstable mood swings, I kid you not. Not to mention she's still wearing the Barbie-esque poofy pink dress that she'd most likely trip over if she tried half the stuff she does in that game in reality, falling flat on her, again, Barbie-esque tiara.

The mood swings are the biggest killer of any hope of genuine gender role breaking in Super Princess Peach. To quote gaming blog Kotaku:

"The touch screen has pictures of four moods on it, when you touch one she gains an ability for a short period of time. Tap the angry face and things explode in fire around her. Tap the sad face and jets of tears sprout from her face."

Stereotypical representations of PMS, anyone?

Pink-shaded pastel colors, Princess Peach's mood swings as a weapon and primary puzzle-solving device, toy jewelry usually seen in Barbie playsets, hearts, eggs, supposed cuteness, etc. - if this is what the game industry thinks women want, then it's hardly any wonder why more women aren't into gaming. I do agree that the industry needs to move away from Lara Croft figures, as they're stereotypical in the opposite direction (women behaving like the male stereotype in order to get ahead), but this isn't helping, and is more likely hurting.

What do I think are the best representations of women in gaming? So far I'd say Indigo Prophecy and Trace Memory - both have women who know how to keep their cool, express their emotions realistically, show strength of will and determination, and use their brains rather than their brawn and/or sex appeal to complete their objectives. If there were more women like those in games, the gender imbalance in gaming might be better rectified.
 
I've noticed that all too often, any games meant to appeal to females have been meant for children. My Little Pony? Whatever the Britney Spears game was? Strawberry Shortcake?

Women, don't kill me here, simply don't enjoy gaming as much as men do. Not to say I don't know women who are gamers. Hell, my mother plays WoW more than I do, which has been quite a bit lately.
 
Webimpulse said:
What do I think are the best representations of women in gaming?

Samus

METROID WOOHOO

Although I will be honest. At the end of Echoes, I was hoping for the bikini from Super Metroid.
 
I now understand what women want. It has taken me a long time, but it has become so clear to me. What all women want is...to not sleep with me. Therefore, in order to make a game that women like, there should be no sleeping with wijg involved. This is probably the reason that In Bed with wijg I-VIII failed so badly with the female gaming audience and led to the bankruptcy of dillusional game developer Nerdalert Inc.
 
Wijg, sorry to hear about the company going bankrupt......Can i cash my stock options back in or is it too late??:money::money: