Final Fantasy Tactics

BCampbell

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It was mentioned in the "Final Fantasy Sucks" thread (which turned to the FF7 thread), so I thought I'd start another thread about it.

Now, I'll be the first to say that FFT was a great game. I'm not a fan of the FF series itself, but I can't deny that I had lots of fun playing this game. It's actually one of only two PS1 games that I still have a copy of (the other one is an RPG too, feel free to take a guess). However, I'll also admit hat it had its flaws, and it's far from the best tactical/strategy RPG, even for its time.

What was good?

The combat system was really well polished. The effects of different terrain were great, and the timed actions added some depth to the normally standard "move, attack, move" action. The fact that all of your information was laid out in front of you seems a little cheap but really adds to the cerebral nature of the combat.

The level and job system were deep. Lots of stuff to unlock there, and some of the jobs were really cool. The character customization was nice too, not only with equipment but also the job skills. There are tons of options for building a character depending on the skills you give them and "buy".

The character recuriting and party formation were interesting. There were only a handful of "story" characters and you could create other characters and even use monsters as you saw fit. I consider that another level of customization, and it rocks.

The non-story game options were probably as good or even better than the actual main plot. Sending characters away on "quests", poaching, all of the "extra" stuff was really good instead of just some mini-game tacked on for no reason.

The soundtrack was pretty good too.

What was bad?

Yeah I'll probably get heckled here. I have a lot of complaints about FFT.

Can we all agree that the story sucked? I mean, come on, it wasn't "complex" it was needlessly convoluted. I found myself grudgingly playing through the story just to open new areas so I could build up my characters more. FF games are supposed to be the other way around, right?

The battle system was great but why were the maps so small? And your party was tiny. Even so, the battles to for-ever. I mean, come on, if I have five cahracters it should not take a half hour to defeat a couple of weak monsters. This was one S-L-O-W game.

The game never really used the FF "universe" to great effect. It didn't feel so much like a tactical FF game as it did some generic game with some FF themes painted on top. The only really core FF component was the boring story.

The job system was great but character and job leveling were horribly executed. It was always either insanely easy or impossibly difficult to get anywhere, depending on if you had the "right" combinations of jobs and skills. Also, if you had the "wrong" setup, some story battles were basically impossible, and some of them you can't back out of. If you happened to save at the wrong time with the wrong party, you could actually be so stuck you'd have to start over. Bad design.

The graphics. It's not so much that the graphics were bad; they were, but considering the time they weren't really more than average. The real problem I have with the graphics is that, since this is TH3 1337 T4CT14L RPG so many tactical RPG's after it have used it as an excuse not to make their graphcis any better than FFT. Yes Nippon Ichi, I'm looking at you.

I guess that's enough for now. I have more complaints about FFT but this will be enough for people to say "OMFG n00b, GTFO u R so dum!11!one!BBQ".
 
I haven't played much of FFT, but I love Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. One of my all-time favorite tactical RPGs ever.

One reason I love it so much? Moogles. With guns. Need I say more?

And yes, I'm thrilled that FF12 is taking place in that universe. I might buy a PS2 just for that game. PS2s are probably dirt cheap these days, thanks to the long shadow of obsolescence coming in its dark cloak and scythe to claim it.
 
If you thought the battles took forever in FFT, play Tactics Ogre. You'll get a better story I think, but you'll have to earn that story, that's for sure. FFT's story isn't that bad to me, anyway. Text-based narratives in video games will probably never be of the level of novels or anything like that, especially given that games are moving away from that narrative style these days. If FFT's translation was done better, I'm almost certain it would have been way more awesome. FFT was one of those games that gave me the impression of broad sweeps and emotional undercurrents: without looking deeply into the game's story, character's motives, etc, it feels truly epic. Sometimes that's enough especially when it's done so well. I credit the music and attention to animation.
 
WHY MUST YOU SPEND SO MUCH TiME SAYING EVERYTHING I LOVE SUCKS AND EVERYTHING I HATE RULES?!?!?!

Your pros, I think, are right. Except the soundtrack...I didn't really like it except for that song in the intro movie.

The story was great. The only real problem was the poor localization, which made it confusing at points. The main thing was about how there was a power struggle between the two regents, being Larg and Goltana, after the King's death. There was a war that ended up pitting the Hokuten Knights (led by Ramza's brothers) on Larg's side, and the Glabados Church on Goltana's side. Both of which end up betraying them, with Dycedarg (Ramza's evil, older brother) killing Larg and Delita (Ramza's ol' pal whose sister dies who joins the Church) killing Goltana. The Church, to increase its power, created the Shrine Knights, headed by Vormav, and their proof of being members was a Zodiac (Holy) stone, which had demons sealed inside them. The Shrine Knights (except for Izlude, who was too weak to become a demon) all became tainted by the stone, which is what turned Vormav, Wiegraf, Elmdor, and their pals, all evil. So, as Ramza tirelessly works to kill each one of them, Delita keeps crawling up the ranks of the Church, and him and the Princess hook up. So, at the end when all of the Church hierarchy is killed or flees, Delita is left as the head of the Church and marries Ovelia, making him the head of Ivalice. It all boils down to a War of the Roses-style power struggle. It isn't convoluted, or even THAT complex (when compared to a Xenogears, at least) but it had a lot of characters which made it tough to follow for people who didn't really pay 100% undivided attention to its story 3 or 4 times through. And I'll also admit, outside of a few chocobos and the appearance of Cloud, it really isn't too FF-ish.

The next point is true, I'll admit. At a few points in the game where you need to do a marathon series of battles, you could often get stuck, and put into an entirely unwinnable situation. Especially in the case of anything where Wiegraf appears. But this was easily avoided by simply saving before each castle, and you'd know when you were in for one of the marathon fights because it'd pop up with a confirmation message. But it was annoying, nonetheless.

The maps were indeed small, and the battles COULD progress slowly, but it's easy to offset this by simply bringing units that had long range (like Lancers, Wizards, and most of the story characters) or even by bringing thieves, monks, and Boco because they were fast. If you don't want to simply kick back and train, then you just need to pick your strong or fast units. But I would've appreciated a 100x60 map with 10 units on the field, but would a low-budget PS1 game be able to handle it effectively?

The graphics....yeah, its 2d graphics weren't impressive. But it was such a big game, I doubt it would've been able to handle it, and not to mention, it was low budget. And I also share the desire to see a tactical game that has good, realistic, 3d graphics. The only thing to come close was Dynasty Tactics 2, but even that wasn't TOO impressive. If they remade FFT, I'd be very pissed if they didn't remake it with high-caliber, realistic characters.
 
supdlyff8fan said:
WHY MUST YOU SPEND SO MUCH TiME SAYING EVERYTHING I LOVE SUCKS AND EVERYTHING I HATE RULES?!?!?!
Did you even read what I freakin' wrote???

BCampbell said:
[size=+1]Now, I'll be the first to say that FFT was a great game. I'm not a fan of the FF series itself, but I can't deny that I had lots of fun playing this game. It's actually one of only two PS1 games that I still have a copy of (the other one is an RPG too, feel free to take a guess).[/size]

Other than that, good points! Though about saving before big fights, that's the problem that can get you stuck. You neally need to have two or three save files just in case... and then if you're stuck you find out that you have to play an hour or two of the game all over again.

As for bigger maps, did you ever play Brigandine? It was a much better tactical game than FFT, if you ask me. Not that you would.
 
Why has everyone in here forgotten about Final Fantasy Tactics Advance? It's a freakin' FFT game. Why does no one even mention it? :incredibl
 
I mostly agree with spudz there.

Another thing about FFT's story is that a lot of missing links were buried in rumors (at bars) and the Zodiac Brave Report or whatever it was called. A lot of that text was mistranslated, though, as they end up referring to one thing by two different names or spellings sometimes. With as many names and places, subdivisions of places and groups of people, it can all get rather confusing.
 
My first play-through of Xenogears left my kind of confused. I hated it for the most part after I got through. Then I went back a couple or three years later and loved it. I don't think Xenogears' story is as hard to process as FFT's, though they are fairly similar in their density.
 
the_roach said:
IAnother thing about FFT's story is that a lot of missing links were buried in rumors (at bars) and the Zodiac Brave Report or whatever it was called.

That's kind of what I was getting at when I said it was needlessly convoluted, not complex. It's actually a fairly simple story, it just wasn't told well.

And I'd like to reiterate that I like Final Fantasy Tactics. I just don't share the opinion of many fanboys that it's:

The best RPG ever
The best strategy/tactical RPG ever
The best PS1 game ever
The best game ever period
Better than peanut butter
Better than sex
Better than everything

I haven't played FFTA. I never got a GBA and just got a DS. I have the Golden Sun sequel on the way, but if anyone wants to send me their copy of FFTA I'd graciously accept it. The judging system in battle kinda makes me hesitatnt to try it, though.
 
The judging system, according to lotsa people, made it "more strategic" when it actually made it stupid and frustrating. It's also cheesey in the story (very Disney special) and the multiple races just means you can't really customize your units. And I'm not a fanboy, but I do hold FFT at the top of my Best Games Ever list.
 
I'd debate the merits of FFTA and why I believe it's one of the best games ever, but my brain's too fried from my tech support job. Too many abusive calls. I can't think of much of anything right now. But I do have one comment to add right now: if the story was too Disney-ish, then why were there Moogles with guns?!??!??

Seriously, more to the point, why are so many gamers afraid of playing something that even hints at being "kiddie?" Some of the best books, films, and even video games appeal to kids as well as adults. Look at Lego Star Wars, The Sims, the Mario series, Ratchet and Clank, Dance Dance Revolution, and countless others. Many people are afraid of playing those games because they look too kiddie and therefore would make them (shock, horror) "ghey"/gay/insert-random-homophobic-comment-here. They're really missing out on some great games.

Honestly, gamers need to get it through their heads that there is nothing wrong with playing or making games that are designed to primarily attract a younger audience. Books have done this with great success - look at Harry Potter or the Narnia series. I know several grown men and women who shamelessly admit to reading such books, and their adulthood hasn't suffered in the least.

Anyway, that ends my rant for now. I'll talk about FFTA later...right now I just can't think.

P.S. What's wrong with being gay anyway? (Not that I'm accusing anyone in here of being homophobic.)
 
Bennett: I saw this topic and had to take a peek. I can't wait to read what everyone had to say, but I have to run now. Be back tommorrow.. Long live Ramza!
 
FFTA wasn't just kiddy in its story (it was seriously pathetic in story, especially compared to the big, elaborate, grim and GOOD one found in FFT) but the game as a whole was dumbed down. As much as Fire Emblem and Suikoden Tactics annoy me with the whole DEATH thing (as in, gone for good), it's a critical part of the game as a whole and without it, it loses a massive amount of the challenge. Plus, the job system isn't as good, and it's way too easy to max out a character on everything.

And cmon, the story boils down to a lonely kid creating a fake world only to become popular with his new friends!!!!!

Yay.

It teetered on needing a giant peach and talking bugs.
 
BCampbell said:
That's kind of what I was getting at when I said it was needlessly convoluted, not complex. It's actually a fairly simple story, it just wasn't told well.

Fairly simple relative to stories present outside of video games probably. I can't think of many vg stories that are more complex. If so, they are more recent video games and aren't primarily text-based narratives. I agree that there are parts of the story that are needlessly convoluted (and accidentally due to localization). If they didn't allocate some of the exposition in the optional manner that they did, then we'd have more cut-scenes. There's something to be said of researching the bits and pieces that make up the overall narrative of a game and then putting the pieces together, anyway. I for one don't want to get everything out of non-interactive cut-scenes; I prefer actual movies which do a way better job at visual non-interactive storytelling than games. Games are strongest in their storytelling when done so through interactive means.
 
I can think of a few dozen games that have a better, more rich and complex story, and they're all wholly text-based narratives.

But yeah, I entirely agree, stories in games are best told through the game's medium -- interactivity. If I really want a story, I'll read Dostoyevsky. Didn't we have a discussion on cut scenes here? Yep, down near the end of the first page here: http://www.mygamer.com/community/showthread.php?t=2113&page=1
 
BC, I would like a list of those games because I want to see for myself. Storytelling in video games has always been a fascination for me. I'd attempt to play a few of them in my spare time if I haven't already.
 
They're all text adventure games. I was being a little cryptic. Look for a game called "A Change in the Weather". There's another really good one but I can't remember the name at the moment. Lots of these are fan-made, and the stories rival anything you'll in games. Of course, many people don't consider them "games" in a traditional sense, they're much more laong the line of "interactive stories".

I actually find the story in beyond Good and Evil pretty interesting, it's too bad that game got pushed under the carpet. Psychonauts deserves a mention because of the way it told the story, even though the story itself wasn't anything special.