Lebanese noodles

scribe999 said:
The terrorist groups aren't the one's coming up with the elaborate political schemes. It's Iran and Syria, and to a lesser extent our "allies" in the war on terror, Saudi Arabia, that are using them in a proxy campaign against Israel. Palestinians are maltreated refugees if they happen to be in their "brethren" nations adjacent to Israel. Many of the Arab nations that pay lip service to the plight of the Palestinians desire the destruction of a Western friendly nation, Israel, while taking back the Holy Land for their own gain. Hamas and Hezbollah are merely tools since they couldn't exist without the help of these backer countries.
Ok, Palestinians are NOT maltreated refugees. They're members of a no-longer existent country who consistently support terrorist attacks in Israel. If people who still claim to be Scottish suddenly crashed a plane into Big Ben, or blew up a school bus or two, would we call THEM maltreated refugees? No, we'd call them terrorists. But yeah, Syria, Iran, etc are more concerned with the theocratic ramifications of retaking Jerusalem.

France and Germany were in the Oil for Food program for Iraq. This was the major scandal that engulfed many of the governmental figures in those nations and the UN, but it had nothing to do with Iran. For all its faults, Iran doesn't have the massive scarcity of food and medicine that afflicted Iraq after the first Gulf War. Regardless, Great Britain, France and Germany do not believe it is acceptable that Iran becomes a nuclear power considering its history of extremism and violent rhetoric that has come out of Iran in the past few decades. They may not do anything well, but they will not ignore the threat as it is clearly more of one than Iraq ever presented during the years following the first Gulf War.
Of course it had something to do with Iran, be it directly or indirectly. Iran has more control of oil than Iraq does, and I'd have to bet that France and Russia went to Iran before they went to Iraq when they wanted to cut a deal for oil. And even so, it's undeniable that Iran is giving UN countries that go easy on them oil kickbacks. Granted, nobody wants Iran to become a country with nuclear capabilities, especially France, but that doesn't mean they're not willing to cut some deals.

As for a pre-emptive strike against Iran, it isn't out of the question for Israel, but if they were going to do it, most likely they would have done it by now. Currently, Israel is hoping for a diplomatic solution to Iran's nuclear capabilities as is everyone else. However, Israel has made it clear, with announcements by the Prime Minister and other representatives of their government, that this campaign currently is not only an attempt to get back their kidnapped soldiers, but that this is a statement against Syria and Iran, Hezbollah's biggest supporters. If you believe Israeli military strength and intelligence is so effective, then you have to believe that they know that this is not merely a minor border skirmish with terrorist thugs SINCE ISRAEL HAS STATED IT THEMSELVES. Also, while Israel has assassinated recognized terrorists in their history, they have not ever assassinated an actual head of state of a recognized sovereign nation. If it's so damn easy to murder a figurehead, Hassan Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah), Yassir Arafat, the Ayatollah Khomeini and Saddam Hussein would have been offed by Mossad since they all represented, at one point or another, clear and present dangers to Israel.
This is entirely true, but when was the last time Israel has been in an actual, full-blown war? I'd have to say that they're going to make some attempts on the life of some political leaders. Or pull a Columbia and have somebody else do it.

Regarding the government of Lebanon, Israel has also publicly stated that they support them, but that they no longer have the patience with its weakness in dealing with the Hezbollah presence in Southern Lebanon. They feel that they're actually doing the Lebanese government a favor. Israel supported the efforts to remove the Syrian military presence that had dominated Lebanon from the 1978 until 2005. There are only a few feasible reasons for Israel to do a full-scale operation in the area, and the most likely is to provide a statement against Iranian nuclear ambition while removing one of Iran's most dangerous tools, Hezbollah.
This is true, but I think that Israel may want more than the Lebanese government is willing to give, in terms of military presence and action. If this is the case, I think that Israel will take steps towards having them do whatever they like.

Israel's history is colored with violence, yes, but the liberal elements in their government have always pressed for peace and order. Otherwise, they would not have allowed Palestinian Arabs to remain within the boundaries of their country at all. Until the most recent Intifada, Palestinians worked and moved about within the boundaries of Israel proper with the necessary documentation. This is not to defend everything Israel has done in the treatment of Palestinians, but the Israeli government has been more reasonable than most governments would be in such a situation.
Of course there are people who are opposed to them taking military action. But this isn't a domestic issue they're dealing with. I think that things aren't going to be held back by worries about public opinion when it comes to them.

Also, if Israel isn't in the business of occupation, why did theyt OCCUPY Lebanon for 22 years? There is no way you can say that this isn't something they're in to since they HAVE done it and ARE in the process of doing it again. Go back in their history, and Israel has occupied the West Bank, Southern Lebanon and the Sinai Peninsula (belonging to Egypt) as defensive measures. So yeah, they have administerd occupational forces in the formally recognized territories of other nations.
True, but I don't think they're going to occupy Iran. They aren't actually being attacked by Iran. I just think they're going to bomb a few places, then leave.

And meet Jewish girls...?
 
Okay, the a couple of the most important things...and then I gotta go meet some nice Jewish girl.

First: Palestinians who no longer reside in the occupied territories or Israel proper live as second-class citizens in neighboring Arab nations as refugees...many of them women and children. They are maltreated by their own Arab neighbors who seem so passionate about helping the Palestinians in front of the t.v. cameras, but could care less when it comes to actually helping them find lives within the bounds of their own borders.

Second: I have to stress this...the Oil for Food Program was specifically set up, with all parameters in the UN orders clearly stating, for Saddam Hussein to sell oil outside of Iraq for purposes of gaining food and medical supplies ostensibly for his suffering people following the first Gulf War. Allegations of abuse included France, Russia, Turkey, China, Jordan, Canada, Great Britain, France and, surprise, surprise, The United States. From The Senate Permanent Subcomittee on Investigations report: "The United States (government) was not only aware of Iraqi oil sales which violated UN sanctions and provided the bulk of the illicit money Saddam Hussein obtained from circumventing UN sanctions. On occasion, the United States actually facilitated the illicit oil sales." Throughout this tangled web of kickbacks and bribes, Iran was not involved once since they a) sell their oil legally without restraint as an OPEC nation, b) had nothing to do with the Gulf War and c) would never, ever be involved in a scheme to bribe Saddam Hussein. Iranian oil is state controlled. There is no side kickback deal with Iran and nations like Russia and China...they openly deal with Iran for their oil. If there is with France or any other European nation that would be construed as illicit, there has been no evidence related to the public. There is, however, evidence that a U.S. company did do illegal business through its subsidiary...again, it was Halliburton.

Third: Israel was last in full-blown war when they last invaded Lebanon in 1982 which they fully relinquished only 6 years ago. They went so far as to capture Beirut. However, they have repeatedly been attacked by Hezbollah, been involved with Palestinian Intifadas and was attacked by Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War. When Israel fought the Six-Days War, the Yom Kippur War and the Wars of Attrition, Israel, again, did not target heads of state...or if they did secretly, they were unsuccessful.

Fourth: Israel wouldn't have enough to gain by being forced to take over parts of Lebanon if Hezbollah is expelled. Lebanon as a stable, peaceful government to the north of them would be the most beneficial concession from a political and economic standpoint that they could possibly want. Territorial gains would actually just garner more headaches and international disapproval, and economic gains would be pointless after destroying Lebanese infrastructure.

Fifth: Israel is pretty much a Western nation, as far as that description goes, and behaves, for the most part like a Western nation in times of war. They have a democratically elected government that does have to deal with internal politics like our own. They have been brutal in the past with some of their tactics and this has often brought about domestic as well as international condemnation. This is why Israel was forced to cede the Sinai Peninsula during the Suez Crisis.

Sixth: Israel would not occupy Iran, yes. But that means that any attempts at completely controlling Iran with force is pretty much a non-starter. Thus, any action to bomb Iran would be an act Israel would feel is done having no recourse (i.e. Iran starts putting together weapons grade Nuclear production plants). This is what I was trying to state, and that is why Iran supports terrorist groups attacking Israel, so that there wouldn't be the obvious pressure on Israel to start a public war with Iran.

I just disagree with this notion that Israel is a passionless, killing machine that just wipes things out without considering the consequences, and this is merely religious intolerance getting out of control yet again. Yes, they have done some reprehensible things, as have the PLO, Hamas and Hezbollah and the Arab nations surrounding Israel, but they all have to live with the complex geopolitics of the situation too. And it is complex, make no mistake. If it were as simple as Israel just flexing its muscle, the problem would have been solved decades ago.
 
I hereby condemn this thread in the International Court of Internet Message Boards. It is an attack on the infrastructure that the internet is founded on: personal attacks, bad grammar and spelling, and poorly structured arguments. The inflammatory index is too low. Specifically, it is sorely lacking in the attacking of sexual preference.
 
Alright, Roach. Here's an attack on sexual preferences.

All terrorists are actually men trying to focus their homosexual urges into another outlet. They take out their frustrations with killing as a weak substitute for their prison-like mentality of male rape.

How's that?
 
Eh, I'm bored with that, Scribe. Let's just agree that we could all use some good-looking Jewish girls. But not the ones that look like their dads...
 
Agreed. Meet some nice Jewish girls and get a degree in criminal justice to become FBI agents as is described by the Google ad.