Free online?

[The_Voice]

So apparenytly, much like with the Nintendo DS, the Wii will have free online gaming capabilities. Maybe this can be a good X-Box Live Killer

Plus, wifi connection means no awkward ethernet cords to connect to the net

 

[spudlyff8fan]

Xbox Live Killer? I laugh at that.

The Wii is going to have an online mode less cohesive than the PS2's. Not only are all games completely seperated, you aren't allowed to have out-of-match chats, and it'll use that stupidass "friend code" thing. And the wifi connection means that any time-precise games like any fighting game or a DDR will suck because it'll be running on 11mbs to 56 mbs instead of good ol' 100mbs, which is going to make EVERYTHING LAG LIKE HOLY HIGH HELL.

Seriously, the Wii online mode is going to simply suck. I doubt it's even going to be worth bothering with.

 

[The_Voice]

Dude, I don't know about you, but considering most of the US is still on dial up (no joke) and considering the high speed internet I have (and most people have... unless they have fibre or some other really high speed interner) runs at 10 Mbps, meaning my Wifi is NOT the bottleneck (and that 10Mbps is on a GOOD day, and my wifi is 56 Mpbs ANYWHERE in my house), I wouldn't worry about lag.

Mario Kart DS doesn't even lag online, so how can a game like DDR, which sends a LOT LESS information lag that much. Besides, the game itself will run and be stored on a local system and then synced afterwards. Heck DDR is one of the least concerns for internet as all it is is sending data back and forth with little to no realtime interaction between clients.

As for the friend code thing: not ALL games require a friend code. Only if you want to remember certain people do you need it. I play Tetris DS online, and not once have I played against someone I have the friend code to. Same with Mario Kart (except that one time with Basil). It's like with X-box live, you can play with ANYONE, but you can have people on a short list of friends. And unless you have their friend code, there is no chatting with them (thank goodness), cause I was sick of all the gamer chat I've ever seen in online gaming.

 

[scoops]

And unless you have their friend code, there is no chatting with them (thank goodness), cause I was sick of all the gamer chat I've ever seen in online gaming.

Let's not forget the handy protection that is against sexual predators and the like, as well.

 

[The_Voice]

Absolutely.

 

[spudlyff8fan]

Dude, I don't know about you, but considering most of the US is still on dial up (no joke) and considering the high speed internet I have (and most people have... unless they have fibre or some other really high speed interner) runs at 10 Mbps, meaning my Wifi is NOT the bottleneck (and that 10Mbps is on a GOOD day, and my wifi is 56 Mpbs ANYWHERE in my house), I wouldn't worry about lag.

Hate to tell ya, but even if "most" of THIS country (or your country, I don't know where you live), 70+ percent of gamers now have a broadband connection. And I think it's safe to say that you've NEVER played a fighting game online.

Mario Kart DS doesn't even lag online, so how can a game like DDR, which sends a LOT LESS information lag that much. Besides, the game itself will run and be stored on a local system and then synced afterwards. Heck DDR is one of the least concerns for internet as all it is is sending data back and forth with little to no realtime interaction between clients.

Less information? I don't think so. And even so, you NEED TO HAVE EXACT TIMING. Even if you only have a 25 ms lag (which is not bad at all), that's more than enough to completely rape your score, throw off your timing and simply wreck a game. Seriously, lag makes games unplayable.

As for the friend code thing: not ALL games require a friend code. Only if you want to remember certain people do you need it. I play Tetris DS online, and not once have I played against someone I have the friend code to. Same with Mario Kart (except that one time with Basil). It's like with X-box live, you can play with ANYONE, but you can have people on a short list of friends. And unless you have their friend code, there is no chatting with them (thank goodness), cause I was sick of all the gamer chat I've ever seen in online gaming.

Friend codes are so mindlessly flawed they teeter on stupidity. Granted, it's a modestly effective system for a handheld, sometimes. But this is a console. The Xbox 360's XBox Live which lets everyone stay connected, communicate with their friends between games and allows them to invite them to a game, regardless of what they're playing is the most effective system around. Like I said, isolating each game is just stupid. The PS2 online setup sucked. And the Wii's is worse.

And that's the thing, Basil. Nintendo claims again and again that they aren't a kid's console, but all they ever do is try to make their consoles kid-friendly. It's stupid. And really, when was the last time you heard of pedophiles trying to abduct children using Xbox Live? All this is is more poor decisions by Nintendo, plain and simple.

 

[The_Voice]

Hate to tell ya, but even if "most" of THIS country (or your country, I don't know where you live), 70+ percent of gamers now have a broadband connection. And I think it's safe to say that you've NEVER played a fighting game online.

I have played a fighting game online... the lag was horrendous, even in a wired connection. It was Capcom vs SNK: Chaos I believe. And we HAVE broadband here in Canada. And it's MUCH slower than the speed I get through my Wifi. I notice no difference in speed on my wired line than my Wifi.

Plus, despite the "gamer" percentage for broadband, the majority of Amaerican's STILL use dial up. Gamer or not gamer. And the Wii is geared towards gamers and non-gamers alike.

Less information? I don't think so. And even so, you NEED TO HAVE EXACT TIMING. Even if you only have a 25 ms lag (which is not bad at all), that's more than enough to completely rape your score, throw off your timing and simply wreck a game. Seriously, lag makes games unplayable.

DUDE! The exact time is LOCAL in a game like DDR. You have exact timing LOCALLY. Then it syncs it up remotely AFTER you score locally. In DDR you aren't directly interacting with remote users or a remote server. You aren't trying to hit your pad, and then send the information out into the ether and then having THAT server or remote user check if you were right on. That would be poor software design, especially for a game like DDR. You sync it LOCALLY for that situation, and if you get it, you sync that up with the REMOTE user/server. The lag between those steps locally should not be observable.

I can see you haven't done any professional real-time software dev. Get back to me on this when you have.

For a fighting game, that's different. You need to sync up almost perfectly with a remote user. A peer-2-peer connection with live data streaming would be necessary. That I agree with, but I think that if a dual core machine can support up to 150 simultaneous 2-way media streaming sessions with little or no perceivable lag, I think 1 to 1 or even 8 to 8 data connections would be fine on specialized gaming hardware... provided the devlopers didn't screw it up their software design.

Friend codes are so mindlessly flawed they teeter on stupidity. Granted, it's a modestly effective system for a handheld, sometimes. But this is a console. The Xbox 360's XBox Live which lets everyone stay connected, communicate with their friends between games and allows them to invite them to a game, regardless of what they're playing is the most effective system around. Like I said, isolating each game is just stupid. The PS2 online setup sucked. And the Wii's is worse.

And why would it HAVE to isolate the games? The DS is a much more specialized system, so this makes sense (not a lot of room to add the extra live-like software and capabilities). On the Wii, it wouldn't make sense to handle it this way. If they do, then granted, I agree with you on this point. I think a friend code per CONSOLE would be a better idea.

And that's the thing, Basil. Nintendo claims again and again that they aren't a kid's console, but all they ever do is try to make their consoles kid-friendly. It's stupid. And really, when was the last time you heard of pedophiles trying to abduct children using Xbox Live? All this is is more poor decisions by Nintendo, plain and simple.

*sigh* what's wrong with a console that's adult friendly AND kid friendly? They aren't making a kids console, but they're making a super ACCESSIBLE console... to anyone! Imagine, a person's first online gaming experience is, "hey n00b. you eat donkey balls for breakfast" or something along those lines. Not very accessible, now is it?

 

[spudlyff8fan]

I have played a fighting game online... the lag was horrendous, even in a wired connection. It was Capcom vs SNK: Chaos I believe. And we HAVE broadband here in Canada. And it's MUCH slower than the speed I get through my Wifi. I notice no difference in speed on my wired line than my Wifi.

Aside from the fact that that game just plain blows, it has the lowest-budget server of all SNK games. Not that it matters, since my point was that the lag would be even worse on

Plus, despite the "gamer" percentage for broadband, the majority of Amaerican's STILL use dial up. Gamer or not gamer. And the Wii is geared towards gamers and non-gamers alike.

Nintendo isn't going to suddenly convert a noteworthy number of people who don't play games to playing games. It just isn't gonna happen.

DUDE! The exact time is LOCAL in a game like DDR. You have exact timing LOCALLY. Then it syncs it up remotely AFTER you score locally. In DDR you aren't directly interacting with remote users or a remote server. You aren't trying to hit your pad, and then send the information out into the ether and then having THAT server or remote user check if you were right on. That would be poor software design, especially for a game like DDR. You sync it LOCALLY for that situation, and if you get it, you sync that up with the REMOTE user/server. The lag between those steps locally should not be observable.

Oh? You've been DDRing on Xbox Live? My mistake, then.

I can see you haven't done any professional real-time software dev. Get back to me on this when you have.

See above sarcasm.

For a fighting game, that's different. You need to sync up almost perfectly with a remote user. A peer-2-peer connection with live data streaming would be necessary. That I agree with, but I think that if a dual core machine can support up to 150 simultaneous 2-way media streaming sessions with little or no perceivable lag, I think 1 to 1 or even 8 to 8 data connections would be fine on specialized gaming hardware... provided the devlopers didn't screw it up their software design.

Ok. You're wrong.

And why would it HAVE to isolate the games? The DS is a much more specialized system, so this makes sense (not a lot of room to add the extra live-like software and capabilities). On the Wii, it wouldn't make sense to handle it this way. If they do, then granted, I agree with you on this point. I think a friend code per CONSOLE would be a better idea.

Because Nintendo already said that it's going to lack XBox Live's between-game connections. You made this thread and you didn't know that?

*sigh* what's wrong with a console that's adult friendly AND kid friendly? They aren't making a kids console, but they're making a super ACCESSIBLE console... to anyone! Imagine, a person's first online gaming experience is, "hey n00b. you eat donkey balls for breakfast" or something along those lines. Not very accessible, now is it?

Because they're consistently sacrificing the features that make the Xbox/360 and PS2/3 more appealing to people old enough to earn the money to buy the console. And they're sacrificing the utility of the finer points of the other consoles because something MIGHT be used against kids. And really, what kids games are online-accessible? If a kid is allowed to go onto Halo 2 on XBL, and gets cussed out then that's the parents fault for letting their kid play Halo 2.

 

[The_Voice]

Oh? You've been DDRing on Xbox Live? My mistake, then.

Then as far as I'm concerned either Xbox live or the DDR development team is flawed. The implementation is just plain BAD.

See above sarcasm.

Once I've seen some credentials as to your software dev experience.

Ok. You're wrong.

See above comment. Until then, you don't know what you're talking about. just because you've experience badly designed online engines, doesn't mean that a WELL DESIGNED system can't be implemented with the requirements I've mentioned.

Because Nintendo already said that it's going to lack XBox Live's between-game connections. You made this thread and you didn't know that?

Alas, I missed this and conceed *this* point.

Because they're consistently sacrificing the features that make the Xbox/360 and PS2/3 more appealing to people old enough to earn the money to buy the console. And they're sacrificing the utility of the finer points of the other consoles because something MIGHT be used against kids. And really, what kids games are online-accessible? If a kid is allowed to go onto Halo 2 on XBL, and gets cussed out then that's the parents fault for letting their kid play Halo 2.

Yes, but should they get cussed out well playing Mario Tennis? Or Mario ANYTHING? I think not. Forget just kids, i'm tlaking ANY age for people who get cussed out. I don't know about you, but at age 24, I'd STILL not like to hear some foul mouthed kid who's got no sense of what's right and wrong.

And I'd like to apologize to anyone reading this for this flame war occurring.

 

[spudlyff8fan]

Then as far as I'm concerned either Xbox live or the DDR development team is flawed. The implementation is just plain BAD.

Once I've seen some credentials as to your software dev experience.

It's easy enough to Google any of the big words you like to condescend to me with. I just find it funny that you would try and play that card when you're insulting XBL when you haven't even played it! While also saying that something is better.

See above comment. Until then, you don't know what you're talking about. just because you've experience badly designed online engines, doesn't mean that a WELL DESIGNED system can't be implemented with the requirements I've mentioned.

Oh, I guess you're right. I mean, you must know. Yeah, I can't believe that all the R&D people who work for Microsoft, Capcom, SNK, Sega, Majesco and Activision didn't think of it first. But yeah...they probably did. No offense, but I doubt that you've just single-handedly outsmarted the entire gaming industry from the past 3 years.

Yes, but should they get cussed out well playing Mario Tennis? Or Mario ANYTHING? I think not. Forget just kids, i'm tlaking ANY age for people who get cussed out. I don't know about you, but at age 24, I'd STILL not like to hear some foul mouthed kid who's got no sense of what's right and wrong.

And I'd like to apologize to anyone reading this for this flame war occurring.

Then why can't the parents just say "no online mode?"

And this isn't a flame war.

 

[The_Voice]

It's easy enough to Google any of the big words you like to condescend to me with. I just find it funny that you would try and play that card when you're insulting XBL when you haven't even played it! While also saying that something is better.

If those are "big words" then that's sad. I've played on XBL. One of my roommates had an Xbox with Xbox live and my work place has both an Xbox and Xbox 360. If the DDR experience is an issue with lag, then there is a flaw with Microsoft and/or software developers.

Oh, I guess you're right. I mean, you must know. Yeah, I can't believe that all the R&D people who work for Microsoft, Capcom, SNK, Sega, Majesco and Activision didn't think of it first. But yeah...they probably did. No offense, but I doubt that you've just single-handedly outsmarted the entire gaming industry from the past 3 years.

So, you're assuming I don't or haven't worked for any of the above mentioned companies, or companies of equal / greater reputation? That's a sad assumption then. If you've met / talked with some of the software developers at these companies, ESPECIALLY the gaming companies, you'd realize that they don't have a streamlined engineering process. They say so themselves. They tend to hack out something as quickly as possible, with little to no QA. With Xbox live this effect is compounded as they can just release a patch at a later date if something goes wrong after release. (I think the ability to patch is good, but I think the gaming industry's abuse of it is bad.)

And I bring up one key example: EA online. Just because a company has a name, doesn't mean they can develop a good online system.

Then why can't the parents just say "no online mode?"

A good idea.

 

[spudlyff8fan]

If those are "big words" then that's sad. I've played on XBL. One of my roommates had an Xbox with Xbox live and my work place has both an Xbox and Xbox 360. If the DDR experience is an issue with lag, then there is a flaw with Microsoft and/or software developers.

So...you've just never played any of the games we're talking about, then? That's not much better.

So, you're assuming I don't or haven't worked for any of the above mentioned companies, or companies of equal / greater reputation? That's a sad assumption then. If you've met / talked with some of the software developers at these companies, ESPECIALLY the gaming companies, you'd realize that they don't have a streamlined engineering process. They say so themselves. They tend to hack out something as quickly as possible, with little to no QA. With Xbox live this effect is compounded as they can just release a patch at a later date if something goes wrong after release. (I think the ability to patch is good, but I think the gaming industry's abuse of it is bad.)

I'm almost guaranteeing that. Because if you think I shouldn't be saying that, then lemme say...

I work for SNK of America. You are wrong.

And as for patching, I don't think you should be so quick to say that. If you'd read any of the interviews done with people like Daisuke Ishiwatari, Tomonobu Itagaki and Peter Molyneux, you'd know that the people who consistently put out quality games always believe thatthey shouldn't be patching to deal with launch problems. Hell, DOA4 missed the Xbox launch because Itagaki is that strongly opposed to it.

And I bring up one key example: EA online. Just because a company has a name, doesn't mean they can develop a good online system.

Good point. Just like how Nintendo is putting out a sucktastic one for the Wii? Thread over.

 

[The_Voice]

I've reached my "how to respond to stubbornness and stupidity" quota for the week, and shan't continue this further. Plus, still no development credentials presented. SNK USA does software SALES in the Americas as far as I know... not DEVELOPMENT.

 

[asylum_boy]

Voice, pay no mind to Spuds.....his parents haven't took him for his weekly visit to the zoo!!......It is understandable though, i'd keep the little b*stard chained up in my basement too!!

 

[asylum_boy]

*waits for Spuds' flaming*

 

[scoops]

Voice, you have some serious patience, bro. I got angry FOR you. Spuds is a borderline troll, really don't pay attention to him. The first post he makes in a thread is usually the point at which I stop reading a thread (at least when anyone disagrees with him, which is frequently). He DOES make a good point here and there though.

For the record, all of you, Voice is a card-carrying (iron ring bearing) systems engineer. HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. HE DOESN'T NEED TO PLAY THE SPECIFIC GAMES BECAUSE HE UNDERSTANDS HOW NETWORKS OPERATE.

 

[Psykhanimucha]

I love how people in this thread are talking like they actually know anything about the Wii's online capabilities, aside from it being connected 24 hours a day and it will utilize a "Friends Codes-ish" system.

You do realize that the friend codes could also be an identification number for each user. They never said ANYTHING about the friend codes being game specific (yes, I know this is how it works on the DS, but Nintendo never said it would be "EXACTLY, TO THE T" like the DS system. They merely stated that they would be taking the same general direction.

EDIT: Here are a few things that may, or may not, be included in the service:

Instant Messaging, E-mail, User Profiles, et al. - Click Here

Mmmm... microtransactions - Click Here

Virtual Console pricing? - Click here

 

[spudlyff8fan]

I think your should head to the Nintendo forum and look around a bit. They have all the press releases, interviews and mainly, the stuff told to international gaming mags like Famitsu. The Wii's online is just not going to be too great. And definitely not going to be better than Xbox Live.

 

[Psykhanimucha]

I have all of the press releases from the Nintendo Press Room itself, and nothing much has been said about the Wii's online interface. Nothing.

I've even checked patents.

 

[spudlyff8fan]

But not the interviews with Japanese gaming mags?